Posted by: Graylon (g_dunc@hotmail.com) on Tue Mar 31 20:24:25 2009

> >>> While I agree that the hands do not move straight to the ball independent of the rest of the body. I do agree that there is not a straight push or pull forward and snap at the end.
>
> IMO the hands are not cast into a CHP. The hands take a direct path to get the barrel in the contact zone. The hands stay in the rear armpit and are moved as the rear shoulder comes down and moves forward. Once the hands are moving forward they are realeased to the ball. The top hand is in charge and is working around the bottom hand continuing to take the barrel to the ball.
>
> The bat is working around the hands and not the shoulders. IMO, MLB hitters are actually fighting the CHP and trying to take there hands directly to the ball. Yes the hand path will be rounded off because of the action of the body, but they are not trying to make it circular.
>
> The hands move down and forward in a tight arc with the rear shoulder and then they are directed to the ball. IMO this may degrade some bat speed as compared to a completely CHP but what is gained is swing quickness.
>
> MLB hitters have to have a balance of both, Swing quickness and bat speed. They are willing to trade some bat speed for the ability to have a quick, compact swing that will give them the greatest ability to square bat to ball and greatest amount of adjustability.
>
> Here is a clip of Manny.
>
> http://www.teachersbilliards.com/hitzone/Mannyswivel.gif <<<
>
> Hi Graylon
>
> I have studied the hand-path of over 120 MLB hitters from a direct overhead view. I can assure you that an overhead view of Manny's swing would exhibit the same hand-path as the in the clips below. I will let the readers decide for themselves if the hands take the "direct path" you claim.
>
> <a href="http://www.batspeed.com/media/John_CHP.wmv">Overhead - CHP & Plate Coverage</a>
>
> <a href="http://www.batspeed.com/media/Rose_Keys_to_CHP.wmv">Keys to CHP</a>
>
> Jack Mankin


Jack,

I veiwed the video that you put up and I would like to say John has a pretty nice swing.

I personally never said the bat goes straight to the ball. I did however say that the hands and bat take a direct path to the ball. The bat is arcing around the hands the whole way. The bat is not lagged back and then whipped out at the end of the swing.

In the clip you showed of John, where the yellow circles where placed above the top hand.

The first 3 circles, shows the hands in the armpit. The arc is down and to the ball. that is why that portion of the arc is tighter then the rest. Because the shoulder is moving down and towards the ball, more then they are moving forward. Taking a direct path.

The 4th and 5th circles show the hand path straighten out, on line with the flight of the ball. By the 5th circle the ball is gone and the hands are following around the body.

If you were to see a side veiw, the hands would be headed down to the ball, straighten out and then follow the curveture of the body on the finish.

I personally do not see the hands cast into a CHP.

Notice how John keeps his hands driving inside. Those hands do not go out and around as in the Rose clip. IMO it almost appears that John is fighting the CHP. Trying to keep the weight of the bat going around his hands from pulling his hands out away from his body.

The Rose clip is a little different. I think Rose uses a little more of a CHP but it also appears that the pitch is up in the zone and away. This would cause a wider arc then normal and less tilt of the shoulders. I would have to reveiew it in greater detail to be sure and I would have to see more clips of Rose to make any determinations of his hand path.

Thanks for the discussion,

Graylon