Posted by: George () on Tue Sep 11 13:54:31 2007

> george -
>
> Here is a link to setpro where you can see "ironnyman" computer simulations that support Jack's model of torque and chp transfer mechanics.
>
> Nyman agrees with JAck at a high level, but not on the (crucial) details:
>
> "The goal is to transfer momentum from the rotation of the body in such a way as to develop bat speed as quickly as possible. Connection to the rotation the torso is primarily determined by the connection from the lead shoulder to the lead hand."
>
> from:
>
> http://www.setprotrainingforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10
>
> Here are the relevant sims:
>
> http://www.setpro.com/stuff/rotational_simulation4.wmv
>
> http://www.setpro.com/stuff/rotational_simulation5.wmv
>
> http://www.setpro.com/stuff/rotational_simulation6.wmv
>
>
> These are computer simulations of modified double pendulum mechanics that support JAck's TORQUE and CHP description.
>
> see my interpretation:
>
>
> http://www.batspeed.com/messageboard/84950.html
>
>
> As Jack has always said with Nyman now making the same statement, the essence of the swing is it's "transfer mechanics".
>
> ONLY the inward turn and application of THT can control the loading of the body so as to produce the early batspeed and late adjustment capability to prosper at the mlb level.
>
> Nyman misinterprets his own models, noting that THT has a hugely significant effect in quickening the swing, but then saying that the human body can not actively/consciously apply such a force.
>
> OF course humans can do that. Good MLB hitters do it all the time. Nyman does not understand how swing adjustments are made on the fly to produce spatially early batspeed as needed to meet the mlb hitting challenge.
>
> So either you believe that transfer mechanics are CHP and HOOK only (Nyman), or you believe in TORQUE and CHP (Mankin).
>
> If you actually take swings, it should not be hard for you to see and feel the effect of handle torque which is necessary for early batspeed. Early batspeed is not only quick acceleration, BUT being able to start this acceleration well behind the batter so as to provide maximum read time and cover the strike zone well.
>
> Golf 1 and 2 plane analysis also shows that swing patterns depend most on the type of "transfer mechanics" involved.
>
> Golf does NOT use much tht/handle torque because swing quickness and on the fly adjustment are not required.
>
> Still, there are 2 patterns of how the club is connected and turned by body rotation, 1 plane is like the Nyman swing, 2 plane is like the mlb swing.
>
> JAck's initial Final Arc video shows the effect of applying handle torque in quickening the golf swing, just as the Nyman models show.
>
> So Jim Rice would acentuate THT for hitting and minimize handle torque for golf.
>
> High level MLB swings require handle torque for adequate swing quickness and adjustment of swing to cover strike zone.


Tom. No offense, but I just could not get into that mechanical view. Nevertheless I appreciate you taking time out to involve yourself in the discussion. (But I have seen a similar video with Pete Rose and Johnny Bench.)

NOTE. I am not disagreeing with Jack's overall concepts. I just do not believe Sosa is applying them.

It is unfortunate that we cannot get a better side view of Sosa. Unfortunately it looks like another unresolved discussion.