Posted by: Mister X () on Thu Apr 24 16:56:15 2003

Mister X,
>
> Your quote:
> “If I were to drive my top hand past my bottom hand (right hand past the left), bottom hand would know be in front of the top hand and closer to the pitcher.”
>
> Wha???
>
> If I drove my top hand PAST my bottom hand, how could the bottom hand be CLOSER to the pitcher?
>
> If I drove my top hand PAST my bottom hand, how could the bottom hand be IN FRONT of the top hand?
>
> Please clarify. Your quote has me very confused.
>
> I will proceed anyhow, with my definition.
> I’ll describe it physically and then give examples.
>
> If I were to place my right hand (with palm down) on a table and drive a nail through the center of the back of the hand and then removing my hand rotate it so that the nail point (palm of hand) is vertical (facing up), and then adduct the hand at the wrist joint (move the little finger closer to the forearm, keeping the point of the nail vertical )- this would be ulnar flexion (ulnar deviation).
> If I were to rotate my forearm (the wrist cannot rotate) so that the nail would point horizontally then this is my definition of the “wrist roll”.
> If I were to rotate my forearm so that the nail would now start pointing beyond horizontal (downward), I would term this “wrist rolling over”.
>
> Three examples “driving the top hand past the bottom hand” are in the links listed below.
> They have the same things in common:
> 1) the top hand is driven past the bottom hand (closer to the pitcher)(they are not parallel)
> 2) the ball is included in the photos to demonstrate the swing at (or as close to) contact.
> 3) there is no evidence of the “wrist rolling over” (quite the contrary, the palms of the top hands are all pointing up).
>
> http://www.gpkonline.com/griffey/gallery1/pic201.html
>
> http://www.drydenphoto.com/mark_mcgwirepictures.html
>
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/features/2001/bonds/popups/hr_4.html
>
>
>
> ray porco
>


Sorry about the confusion ray. I misspoke (or mistyped) there. I think you know what I meant but just to be sure it should be this:
“If I were to drive my top hand past my bottom hand (right hand past the left), my TOP hand would know be in front of the BOTTOM hand and closer to the pitcher.”

But I think we're getting somewhere now. I believe I understand what you are saying. But I want to address the pictures first. As far as the Big Mac pic, I don't see anything like what you described. His top hand is not bent at the wrist at all, and both hands a paralell (equal distance from the pitcher).

Likewise in the Bonds pic. It is hard to tell because of the angle and his black undershirt, but I believe his wrists are in the same position as Big Mac's. As a comparison, check out the next pic in the series (click "Next HR"). In that picture, his wrists are clearly in the same position as Big Mac's. And I believe they are in the same position in the original pic you refered to. The only difference I see is that in the original pic, Bonds is hitting the ball more in front of him (hence the 410ft HR to right). And if his wrists are bent, I believe it is because he is out in front and not any thinking on his part to drive his top hand.

As far as the Griffey pic, I think there is a little wrist bend. But notice he is also hitting the ball out in front. Ideal contact should be made just about even with the front knee. He and Bonds are hitting the ball in front of their front foot. Again I can't really tell if there is wrist bend, but I can explain the position of the hands. Say for an example that his wrists are not bent. If he would keep his hands still in the same relationship and just rotate, at some point in the rotation, his top hand will be closer to the pitcher.

So in a quick summary, I don't really see what you described with the wrist bend. If those pics were actually clips of their whole swings, and at some point the top hand was closer to the pitcher than the bottom hand, I would attribute that to rotation with inactive hands and/or contact point.

As I said, I understand you description of the movements. I want to make sure I know what you are saying with your cue, though. When you tell someone "drive you top hand past your bottom hand" what are you expecting to happen? Are you just expecting the hitter to bend his wrist like you described? Or is there more involved?

This is tricky to describe but I'll give it a go. When I say "wrist roll" OR "wrist roll over" I mean the same thing. To me, there is no difference betwee the two terms, and they can be used interchangeably. What I mean when I use either of those two terms is what you both things you described. If the top wrist makes ANY kind of movement that causes the nail to move more horizontal that is "wrist roll (over)". I understand what you mean with the "over", but I believe that if you start to roll, it is almost impossible to stop. And going with your definitions, both will cause problems. I don't think it is necessary to differentiate between degrees of wrist roll.

Whew. That was a lot. I apologize already for any typos that you might find which could cause you confusion like in my last post. If you do find any, try use my past comments to figure them out. If you do need clarification, just ask.